Never Understood Aston's V12 'Problem'

"PS9" (PS9) 09/29/2014 at 12:13 • Filed to: None

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'It's not a real V12, it's just two Duratecs glued together!' Umm...yeah? So what? It still makes beautiful noises, gobs of torque and all the horsepower you'd expect to get from a V12 powered supercar, right?

People anthropomorphize cars a lot, to the point of believing they have the same qualities that a biological living entity does. Well hate to burst you bubble but...they don't. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work like that. They cannot have relations and descendants; they are machines. I don't really see the problem in making engines based on other engines. They are expensive things to create. If the results are good - and they are far more than good here. They are spectacular - then the origins don't count.

Manuél Ferrari > PS9 09/29/2014 at 12:15

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And it's not unique to them. BMW made a V12 by joining two I6s together. And I believe a whole generation of Ferrari V12s were created by fusing two Dino V6s together.

djmt1 > PS9 09/29/2014 at 12:16

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And what exactly is wrong with the Ford Duratec is my question.

Crushing Lamborghinis since 2005.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > PS9 09/29/2014 at 12:16

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Hell if it has 12 cylinders in roughly a V configuration, I'll allow it.

PS9 > Manuél Ferrari 09/29/2014 at 12:19

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Woah, woah, woah.

Ferrari V12s are made with two dino's a piece!?

Bricks > PS9 09/29/2014 at 12:21

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I didn't realise the engine was still based on two ford duratec engine design, well I guess whatever works.

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > PS9 09/29/2014 at 12:23

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My philosophy goes like this: yes, it's two Duratec V6 units. But: 1) there's nothing wrong about a Duratec V6 and 2) previous iterations of that V12 were built by Cosworth.

Sweet Trav > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut 09/29/2014 at 12:25

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Cosworth still casts the block and heads

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > Sweet Trav 09/29/2014 at 12:26

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//hops around happily

RazoE > djmt1 09/29/2014 at 12:27

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They now run Yamaha V8's out of a Volvo. WHICH HAPPENS TO BE THE TAURUS SHO ENGINE. WHY AM I TYPING IN ALL CAPS? I DONT KNOW.

Anyway, that engine is essentially the 1st/2nd gen Taurus SHO engine with 2 extra cylinders (which powered the 3rd gen SHO)

But it's still "Ford" powered.

Manuél Ferrari > PS9 09/29/2014 at 12:29

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That's exactly how they did it! And that's why they leak so much oil...

Rock Bottom > Manuél Ferrari 09/29/2014 at 12:33

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The Dino engine family included V8s, as well as the mentioned V6s and V12s. They all (initially) shared bore spacing and some internal dimensions (main and rod journal diameter and width, I think). They may have shared some head dimensions too. I think it's neat to think that the Dino family was really one of the first modular engines (decades ahead of the GM Atlas and Ford Mod V8/V10/V12).

Manuél Ferrari > Rock Bottom 09/29/2014 at 12:37

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Nice. I didn't know it was one of the first modular engines. That is cool!

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/29/2014 at 12:39

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Sad Ferrari is sad .

Jeff-God-of-Biscuits > Manuél Ferrari 09/29/2014 at 12:41

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You are what you eat, you know.

Rock Bottom > Manuél Ferrari 09/29/2014 at 12:54

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I'm not sure that's what they intended, but that's what they ended up with!

Manuél Ferrari > Rock Bottom 09/29/2014 at 13:05

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Haha true. It may not have been the plan from the beginning but it worked out in the long run!

My Dad has a 612. I think the V12 in that car might use this architecture.

Vin > PS9 09/29/2014 at 13:08

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There's a difference between "making a sound argument," and "saying things in order to get the Jalopnik hivemind to give you stars."

The Duratec "V-12gate" is definitely the latter.

lonestranger > PS9 09/29/2014 at 13:09

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Love it or hate it, the Veyron is an extraordinary supercar. Its engine? Basically:

Take a VW VR6, cut two cylinders off of the end to make a "VR4".

Join two VR4s side-by-side, sharing the same crank, cast the block in aluminum, and you have a W8 engine for the Passat.

Join two W8s end-to-end to make a W16.

Add four turbos, and you're done!

T5Killer > RazoE 09/29/2014 at 13:38

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Nope the SHO V6 and V8 SHO are not related. The SHO V8 is distantly related to the Duratec v6 which shares nothing the the Yamaha/Ford V6

Rock Bottom > Manuél Ferrari 09/29/2014 at 13:38

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Yeah, it's a development of the old 456/550 engine which were later Dino derivatives.

RazoE > T5Killer 09/29/2014 at 13:40

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Aw, you are correct.

Research > Me

Still. Imagine a V16 based off that engine?

Tapas > PS9 09/29/2014 at 14:20

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Hey, if I could "glue" one or more lesser things and make something thats more than just the sum of its parts, that would be awesome.

I can't fault Aston for that. I would however count on them to make the engine up to par with the rest of the V-12 "made from scratch", with regards to performance and reliability.

Manuél Ferrari > Rock Bottom 09/29/2014 at 14:54

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It leaks a little oil but other than that it's an awesome engine!! So buttery smooth.

crowmolly > PS9 09/29/2014 at 15:15

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Fucking boat motor!

E30Joe drives a Subaru > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 09/29/2014 at 21:39

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Mostly because of the steepness of that ramp :(

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/29/2014 at 22:44

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Your arbitrary V requirement means it's flat 12 awesomeness is left on the side of the road waiting to get ignominiously dragged up a ramp with too steep of an approach angle resulting in more sadness in the form of a ruined air dam.

E30Joe drives a Subaru > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 09/29/2014 at 23:02

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A flat 12 is just a squished V, I'll allow it.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > E30Joe drives a Subaru 09/29/2014 at 23:04

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Woohoo! 12 cylinders of 80's Ferrari FTMFW!

RallyWrench > PS9 09/30/2014 at 16:06

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Some Aston owner should put a Duratec badge on the trunk just to troll these people.

JGrabowMSt > PS9 10/01/2014 at 15:57

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Mercedes is no different. My SL is powered by a mashed together pair of 6 cylinder motors, and each half still has it's own brain. Electrical issues are the sound of the bank calling.

Honestly, if you already have something that works, and you can make something new by taking two of them and mashing them together, by all means, go for it.